[How did you first find coaching]

I found coaching through working for a variety of companies in HR. I realized that a lot of people were coming to me to ask, ‘how can I be successful’, or ‘I’m having this challenge with my leader or team’, and I would work with those folks to help them be successful and hurdle those issues.

When I left my last corporate company friends and colleagues reached out and said that I couldn’t leave. It was interesting because I stumbled across coaching, it came through a gentleman that I had done some consulting with in my previous role. He said that I should be a coach and I said well what is that?

This was almost 25 years ago so there wasn’t a real ICF or a coaching organization at the time. It took me a while to figure out how to get credentials in that space. I finally got credentials and had this fear about how am I going to charge clients. What if I’m not successful? I was feeling that imposter syndrome that we all get.

My coach and mentor kept pushing me and made me make deadlines, start activities at certain times, have goals for client numbers, and compensation. That was many years ago and here I am coaching independently, consulting a bit, and I’m also a licensed mental health professional. I still talk to my coach and mentor almost every week and he’s in his late 80s now.

[How do you define success in terms of a coaching engagement with a client?]

I can only feel successful when my clients have felt that they’ve met their goals for coaching. As a coach, it’s my responsibility to have a client understand that there may be other obstacles they need to hurdle that are not going to be covered in coaching. Potentially counseling, ADHD work, whatever it may be. It might even be that the role the client is in isn’t for them, they may need to find a new organization or team where they can be successful as what they are doing isn’t healthy for them.
It’s a partnership, does my client feel like they are getting what they need from our coaching engagement

[How do you see if you and a potential client have a working dynamic?]

Conversation, you can tell if people are invested in this work, or if there is another thing that they want to try. Is a person hungry for change? Seeing that they know that there is work to be done on their part because as a coach I don’t have a magic wand. When we have that mutual agreement and understanding we can move on to success.

[Over your coaching career, how do you navigate a client relationship?]

Generally, I ask about what their coaching goals are. Where do you want to be or see yourself at the end of that journey? What are some of the three adjectives or feelings that you’re going to have, or your joy when you get there? If they can taste it, then we know they have a place to go.
One of the things I learned in grad school which I find super helpful, and I know it is on the counseling side of my business, but it is true for coaching as well is that you have to fall in love with your clients. you really have to be able to work with them in a way where they feel trust with you and are vulnerable to share what is really going on. So, if I don’t have that feeling of rapport, I know it is going to be challenging.

[What is that process of building rapport or falling in love with a client like for you?]

They show up, they’ve done their homework, they have stories or anecdotes, even they might say that they’ve tried something and have seen that it is working.
The other is their ability to keep coming back. As their life changes, they know they have someone in their corner who is there for their success no matter what. If they’ve gone through a layoff, divorce, downsizing, or death in the family, they know that they have a constant.

[when you think of your coaching process what is it that you are hoping to help your clients through?]

Anything and everything. Mostly I work with executives and leaders. Most of it is organizationally related, how can I be successful with my job in this career? I do very little life coaching, but it sometimes bleeds into that, because what is happening in their life is impacting them at their job or in their career in some way.

[how has coaching helped you grow?]

I feel like I’ve been able to grow tremendously. One way is the ability to call it like it is. This is what I see this is what is going on, are you wanting to hurdle that?
The other is capacity. The ability to distill down very quickly what a client needs and how we are going to get them there. Refining and practicing in my work and becoming more skilled. And it is like any other profession where you are always fine-tuning your skills, reassessing the tools that are available, and what other coaches are saying and doing.
And also having an understanding of what organizational cultures are like. If I don’t understand an organization’s culture it is hard for me to help a client be successful in navigating it. There are probably not very many companies that you could name for me that I wouldn’t know what their cultures are like.

[how do you stay sharp as a coach]

For both my practices as a therapist and as a coach I have a consult group. Other coaches and consultants and we get together and talk about the work we’re doing, tools, books, certifications, classes, anything that someone says has been helpful. All of that is the constant of continuing to sharpen my craft.
Looking at just the last 10-12 years there are so many more resources out there that weren’t there before. There are companies and organizations that are still using Myers Briggs and the question is what does the client actually get from that? The answer has been not much, so we put that tool back onto the shelf. There are tools out there that are much more useful and much more client specific that the client can embrace instead of embodying how they are similar to a personality test profile for example.

[how did you start building that community of consultants you work with?]

In the very beginning, it was my own mentor and coach and as I kept working with clients and organizations, I got people that I knew had a background in HR I knew a lot of people. Generally being able to ask what company culture is like. Sometimes the client can’t tell you because it is water they are swimming in.
An external or internal HR person can better look at what the culture is and the pros and cons of how they operate. Continuing to build my pool of resources through coaches and consultants is growing that.

[what is your goal when a client comes to you about company culture?]

Understand the landscape in which they’re in. If it’s a manufacturing organization with a lot of unions and the hierarchy is very patriotic that is a different organization than how I would coach someone in a company that is a co-op for example. They operate potentially in a very different way.
Even how old a company is, and who is still at the top.
With structure, I had a session with a group of coaches and they asked me about something I did last week at the University of Washington and we talked about how higher education structure has not changed. How oppressive it is towards people of color and women, and how that infrastructure weeds people out and prevents them from moving up in those organizations.
 

[what type of growing pains do organizations have?]

There’s the fallacy that this takes a lot of time. For example, if we go through this process, then we cannot ship our products. This doesn’t make a lot of sense, it is about is there a willingness and desire to stop and think about how are we making decisions. What are the products that we are producing and shipping and the services? Are they valued by our own employees? Do the employees feel oppressed in these processes?
All of these things work together.
 

[At this time in your coaching, what is it that you are looking forward to the most in the future?]

I think it goes back to cultures. When companies really make the decision and put the effort and the money towards helping their organizations be inclusive. Looking at all the things that keep people out vs bringing people in. Where people feel like they belong, are contributing, and are valued, that is when everyone wins we all win. We’re not complaining, looking for new jobs, or getting as sick.
 

[when it comes to inclusivity/belonging, is that something that has been impactful for you]

For me working in corporate, it always amazed me how insensitive people were to other people’s needs. That lack of compassion. If someone has to take two buses to work that’s different than someone with a car.
If someone is showing up is that seen? Or is there only one way to show up? There should be multiple ways of being.
 

[how has your sense of belonging shifted throughout your coaching career?]

I’m not sure if its shifted because I’ve always had the sense that people do create in their jobs and careers when they have a sense of belonging. That’s always been my stance. What has become clear to me is that people are looking from their own vantage point. So how do you shift and look at something from someone else’s perspective?
Even my Grad and Ph.D. students that I facilitate. They brought some stuff up, 'what if I’m a grad or Ph.D. student who has to work part or full-time and study?' or  'I’m not at the same advantage as someone whose parents pay for their education'. Even that. They took it a step further, what if their publications don't make the same publications because they have less time for the work, it doesn’t mean they care less about their career, but taking care of a mother or child takes away from the resource of time. And people can feel this.
These are physics majors and they can feel it. They flipped it and said, the companies want to interview everyone the same way. Everything is the same but we are all very different. If we can get to a place where there’s not only one way to do things.

[How has the IOC supplemented your coaching practice]

Data. People tend to move with data so that has been super helpful. Also the enthusiasm for the variety of consultants and coaches that are part of the IOC. The knowledge and expertise of having another group of people that I can learn from is great.

[what would your advice be to coaches who are starting out?]

Pay attention to your gut, money is not the objective. Once you have a successful client or two, they will get the word out. Money is not the only indicator of success. Coach in the industry that you’ve been in. Those people know you, you’re not a stranger.